Zakaat on jewelry and bank deposits.

Question : I have some gold ornaments that are less then nisab, and I have some money deposited in a bank, it is also less then nisab, but in value, together they exceeds nisab. Do I have to pay zakah?

Answer: Yes, when you have the nisaab amount one day, and then still have a nisaab amount one year later, regardless of fluctuations between those two dates, then you must pay 2.5%. 

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 07, 2006

Reading hadith books 2

Question: i want to purchase the hadith so that i can gothrough it and understand it (inshallah) and want to know what exactly our prophet followed.presently i am in US so which hadith i should i follow. So please reply me a specific name of the book of hadith so that i can buy and read it.

Answer: The study of hadith differs from the study of fiqh. Hadith study focuses mainly on simply narrating what has been narrated, and judging the quality of the chain of narration (weak, hasan, sahiih, etc.) It tells you lnothing about how to understand these hadiths, because for this one needs a comprehensive view of all relevant information from other hadiths, Quran, scholarly sayings, Arabic linguistics, etc. To read hadith books with the purpose of knowing haram and halal by oneself is a gateway to Hell.

Fiqh on the other hand, focuses on the bottom line of what is fard, sunnah, mubaah, haram, etc. based on Hadith, Quran, Ijmaa^ and Qiyaas all at the same time, and in context. One does not learn fiqh by reading hadith books, nor is only likely to know much about proofs simply from reading hadith books; it is a large and intricate subject unlike some people apparently think.

If you simply want to read hadith, then Bukhaariy, Muslim etc. will do. I don't think, however, there are translations out there that are reliable. If you want to know the hadith proofs of the Hanafi school, that is a hadith book with a fiqh perspective, then I don''t know any books except in Arabic. An exception is I have seen a book in English that claims to show the hadith proofs of the Hanafi school with regards to prayer only. Do an internet search and you might find it.

All in all, I am not at all enthusiastic about reading books by oneself, certainly not books of hadith, for it contains much that can be very seriously misunderstood by a lay person. Sometimes the apparent meaning of a hadith with an authentic chain may have an apparent meanin that is impossible, and blasphemy to believe, which means that it is either discarded or given a figurative interpretation, as Al-Khatiib Al-Baghdaadiy and Al-^Uqayliy both stated. These two are imams in hadith knowledge.

One must learn from a qualified teacher that can protect one from such slips. Moreover, I am even less enthusiastic about using translations for such learning. There is very little out there that is any good, and most of it has very serious problems. I have yet to find a so called translation of the Quran that does not have plain blasphemy in it of the anthropomorphist kind. It is also different from the Sunni tradition of learning Arabic to learn the religion beyond the basics. I therefore strongly advice you instead to use your reading time for learning Arabic instead of reading translated books on religion.

Re: masah over socks

Question: Is it according to Abu Hanifa and his 2 students Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad permissible and valid to wipe over socks (whether they are leather or other material) if they are such that they dont absorb the water? ("absorb" here refers to "immediate absorption") I this is the case: If i have cotton socks and when i do masah over them the water doesnt reach my feetskin immidiatly then is it valid?

Answer: Not only waterproof. They must stand by themselves without support, up to the level above the ancle, if left on the floor like shoes. I.e. "socks" here means shoes made from cloth more or less. Like the shoes that are made from felted whool.

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 08, 2006

Re: 60 days fasting

Question: What is the proof from Quran or Hadeeth that one must fast 60 days kaffarah if one breaks his fasting? I heard a Imam on TV say that there is no proof from Quran or Hadeeth to support this.

Answer: The atonement is due if the breech of the fast was complete without any mitigating circumstances. In support of this, Al-Bukhaariy related what means that a man came to Prophet Muhammad during Ramadan and said, "O Messenger of Allah, I have been destroyed!" upon which the Prophet –may Allah raise his rank- asked what was the matter and the man said, "I made intercourse with my wife while fasting". The Prophet asked whether he could find a slave to free, but he answered, "No," upon which the Prophet asked, "then are you able to fast two consecutive months?" but again the man, said, "No." The Messenger of Allah then asked what means, "Can you find what feeds sixty poor people?" but the man answered, "No," once again. Upon that the Prophet –may Allah raise his rank-  remained silent for a moment, and in the meantime someone brought him a large vessel with dates. He said, "Where is the one asking?" The man answered, "I <am here>!" The Prophet said, "Take these and give them as alms <sadaqah>!" etc.  

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 05, 2006

Posision of Hands in Qnut

Question: In the takbir for qunut in witr it is said one should raise his hands in the
manner as raising for dua (thus not like when starting prayer) and reading in this position the qunut.(keeping the hands raised) Is this correct?

Answer: In the Hanafi school one puts one's hands during qunut as one does when reading faatihah: Righ over left below the navel.

Re: the rakaat of nafila

Question: According to Abu Hanifa how many rakat nafila can you pray with one taslim?

Answer: It is makruuh to pray more than 4 rak^ahs with one tasliim.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 03, 2006

Re: Bravenet Form Processor Fiqh Q&A

Question:  Do you have to make wudu over if you have alot of mucus(Snot) in your noise and you blow it out?
 

Answer: No.

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 2006

Re: Bravenet Form Processor Fiqh Q&A

Question: If one's saliva becomes thick while fasting, does it break fast to swallow it?  What if you cough up phlegm and swallow it?  What if you have chronic mucous in your throat, does swallowing it break fast?  Lastly, if mucous flows down the back of your throat persistently, do you have to constantly intercept it and spit it out, or can you swallow it?

Answer: It does not break the fast to swallow spit or phlegm as long as it was not from outside the mouth. As long as it remained in the mouth and was swallowed, it does not harm the fast. If someone had spit outside the mouth, then brought it into the mouth and swallowed it, however, it would break the fast, like any other substance from outside the mouth.

Re: masah over socks

Question: What is the proof that socks allowed for wiping must be solid enough stand by themselves without support, up to the level above the ancle, if left on the floor like shoes?

Answer : What is the proof that they don't? This is the real question. The original order of the Quran is that the feet must be washed. Then it was established that wiping the khuff is allowed by narrations from some 70 companions. Socks are only mentioned in some hadiths describing actions, and are not sayings. There is no hadith saying "wipe on your socks!" that can be generalized. This means that one must take care to ensure that the same circumstances are met, because actions cannot be generalized. At that time (1) they did not have thin socks (2) and their socks were used for travel. Moreover, there is no hardship in removing thin socks. Thin socks are therefore different from several angles, and there is no proof that wiping a this sock is a subsitute for the Quranic order of washing the feet, which must be met.

Interpretation of words refering to Allah's attributes

Question: According to the translator of Fiqh al Akbar, Imam Abu Hanifa writes this passage (Abu Adam: beware that the translation below is weak and dangerously misleading. It is not allowed to translate literally the words refering to Allah's attributes in Arabic that are not obvious in meaning, such as translating "yad" as "hand", etc. This is because the apparent meaning of "hand" is a limb, and it is blasphemy to believe that Allah has limbs. See the answer below for more detail ):

"It cannot be said that His Hand represents His power or His bestowal of bounty, because such an interpretation would require a negation of an attribute."

The question is: Imam Abu Hanifa clearly here states that it cannot be said that His hand represents His power or His bestowal of bounty. So why the Maturidiyyah still say that ''hand'' means ''power''? This goes against the statement of Abu Hanifa, i.e. this is a big contradiction. Can you exlain this contradiction?

Answer: First of all this kind of translation is the work of an irresponsible deviant. How can he translate the arabic "yad" as "hand" in this context, when Abu Hanifa does not accept providing an interpretation? In fact, a couple of pages later he explicitly states that it is not allowed to translate "yad" into Persian, even if if you state immediately after it: "without a modality."

Moreover, the translator's saying "of unknowable modality," is not what it says in Arabic. It says: "without a modality." This is very different. Modality, as stated in Princeton University's Wordnet means: "how something is done or how it happens". According to this definition it is kufr to say about an attribute of Allah that it is of "unknowable modality", because this implies that it does have one, it is just that we do not know it.

The expression translated is "bilaa kayf". Literally it means: "without a how". It does not mean that the how is unknown. It means thatthere is no how. That is, Allah attributes are not something that has spatial, physical or temporal aspects, ie. shape, form, mode and the like. This is because such aspects are aspects of created attributes. Such attributes need specification, because they have many possible modes, such as: what kind of shape? How tall?  How wide?, How fast? How far? In what direction? At what time? etc. This means that these attributes need a creator to specify them, and cannot be eternal.

Back to your question.... Note that the reason why Abu Hanifa says what he says about "yad" is that saying it means "power" or "bestowal of bounty" does not fit the context it is mentioned in all places. Many of the later followers of Abu Hanifa were compelled to specify interpretations for words that are used to refer to attributes, but do not have an obvious and befitting meaning. One of them is "yad". This compulsion came from the appearance of much deviation and confusion caused by hypocrates, deviants and other enemies of the religion. This meant it was no longer sufficient to say "without modality". It had to be made more clear that these words do not have any sense of their apparent meaning in order to remove doubts and concerns among the general public. So although it is preferred not to specify a meaning, having people falling in kufr is much worse than going ahead with providing acceptable interpretations.

For this reason one finds many scholars doing this. Even Ahmad ibn Hanbal, the most conservative of the four imams did this. He said that "Jaa' Rabbuka", which is translated by blasphemers as. "Allah came", means that Allah's orders came. This saying of his was narrated with a sound chain by Al-Bayhaqiy.

The need for providing acceptable interpretations is especially pressing today, because people are very ignorant and there is big propaganda for the blasphemous beliefs of anthropomorphism. Almost all the money for religious propagation is in the hands of anthropomorphists or those that try to please them.

 

As a sidenote you should know that when it comes to translating words that refer to Allah's attributes, such as ridaa, ghadab, yad, etc. which's literal meaning do not befit the Creator, there is consensus that this cannot be done if the translation is misleading. Almost all authors today commit a big mistake in this area. In Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar itself you will find that Abu Hanifa does not allow that translation of the Arabic "yad", translated by the careless translator as "hand", at all to Persian. He did allow translating some other words, provided that one stated "without a how" with it. At his time, and in Persian, he felt that this was enough to avoid misunderstandings, except in the case of "yad".

Know that the following are the conditions that must be made for translation of Allah's attributes to another language than Arabic:

1.It must be equivalent to an Arabic expression that is permitted to use.
 

For example we do not say that Allah has a "mind" or use the words "intelligent" or "rational" as attributes for Him, because there are no revealed text to indicate the permission.

2.It must have the same meaning as the Arabic expression in the context that it is being used.
 

For example, we should not use the word "anger" as a translation of the word "ghadab" in Arabic, because "anger" is an emotional reaction in English, and is not used otherwise. Emotions are changing states of being, and it is impossible that Allah should change, just as it is impossible that he should react, because reacting is a sign of need. Rather one should translate the meaning of "ghadab" when referring to Allah, which is that the one that has Allah's "ghadab" against him is someone that Allah has willed punishment for.
 

Likewise one must not use the intransitive verb "pleased" for Allah as a translation for "radiya" in Arabic, because the expression "to be pleased" is an emotional reaction. Instead one should use the word reward, which is what the verb radiya means when referring to Allah in Arabic.

3.It must not be confusing or misleading so that a listener or reader may think it means something that is not befitting of the Creator.

For example, a word like "wrath" is closer to "ghadab" in Arabic when referring to Allah, than "anger". This is because wrath can mean "punishment." Accordingly, the expression "God's Wrath", could mean: "God's Punishment." There is still, however, the fear of it being misunderstood to mean an emotional state. For that reason, it is safer to use the word "punishment" for the Arabic "ghadab", than wrath.
 

Note that while there are expressions in Quran and Ĥadith that can be easily misunderstood, we are not allowed to come up with misleading expressions of our own.

4.It must not give a sense of being improper or impolite.
 

For example, we do not use an expression like "the Creator of ugliness" in an absolutely way. This is despite the fact that its permission is included in the permission to say "the Creator of All Things". The reason is that it shows poor etiquette when uttered in an absolute way.

5.It must carry a sense of awe and glorification. For example we do not use the word "planter", even though the verb "to plant" is used in Arabic, because the former lacks the sense of awe and glorification.
 

The origin of the above rules is that one cannot say anything about Allah for which there is no permission. The permission is achieved by having a revealed text. The words that refer to attributes in Arabic that some people understand wrongly have permission, but translated words do not. One cannot translate these in a way that does not comply to the above 5 rules, because without these being met, one is saying something about Allah according to what one likes or thinks only, this is either haraam or kufr, not less.

Weak hadeeth on 4 rak^aat before Jumu^ah Prayer

Question:

I Heard that this hadeeth is extremely weak, and that Nawawi in Hulasa said that 4 weak narrators where together in this hadeeth:

 

Atiyya: Weak bij conencus

Hadjjaas Mudalhis, Muabbashir bin Ubayd: Liars

Bakiyya Ibn Walid: A Mudallis

 

Abdullah Ibn Abbas (Allah have mercy on him), related that, 'The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) used to pray four rakats before Jumu`ah without separating between them at all.' (narrated in Ibn Majah)

 

Is this true?

Answer: Yes, the many authors state this. However, Al-Haafith Al-^Iraaqiy stated that the hadith has been narrated with an acceptable chain of narrators. 

SUNDAY, JANUARY 14, 2007

Re: imam changing place afer fard prayer

Question:

  Must the imam change place after the fard prayer if he wants to pray the sunnah? Please give dalil

Answer:

It is Makruuh for him to pray in the same place, because the Prophet ordered to move a little from the place of the Fard. This is more important for the Imam to avoid confusion as to what prayer he is in, but also encouraged for followers.

Re: prayer beads

Question: 

Shouldn't we avoid the use prayer beads as the Christians also use a similar prayer beads in the church?

Answer:
No, because great early Muslims also used them. It is mentioned in hadith that a companion used pebbles to count remembrances in front of the Prophet, and he did not forbid it. It is therefore not counted as imitating Christians. 

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 10, 2007

Re: photos

Question:

Is taking photos with a camera haraam or allowed?

Answer:
The Hanafi scholars in Damascus allow photography, unlike painting or drawing images of live beings. 

MONDAY, JANUARY 08, 2007

Regarding the Attributes of Allah

A Faqir asked:

shaikh, one of the most common attacks of the pseudo-salafis upon the ash'aris in the West is that they say ash'aris are mu'attila because they affirm only some attributes and reject others which does not agree with their intellect.

they say that if we can accept 'as-sam' and 'al-basar' as "literal" attributes of Allah's Essence bila kayf then what is stopping us from accepting 'wajh', 'yad/yadain', and 'ayn', for example, as being "literal" attributes of Allah's Essence bila kayf. Why not accept them literally bila kayf like we do Irada, sam', basar instead of making ta'wil? How do we answer this ya shaikh?

Answer and comment:
First of all, that does "literal bi laa kayf" mean? This appears self contradictory.

Ash^ariys do not deny any attribute of Allah that has been unequivocally verified as His by the Quran or sound Hadiiths. What the Ash^ariys do not accept is to understand the words referring to Allah's attribute as having the meaning of things that are created. That is, location, direction, weight, volume, length, width, starting, stopping or changing. This is not denial of attributes except according to someone who believes Allah has such attributes. The one that believes that is a Kaafir by the agreement of Abu Hanifa, Maalik, Al-Shaafi^iy and Ahmad.

We do accept to say "yad bilaa kayf". as long as it is understood that there is no kayf, NOT that there is an unknown kayf. Making ta'wiil is only needed if it is to protect people from believing that Allah has limbs. We have not said that one MUST make ta'wiil. The ta'wiil is made to settle doubts and confusion that presents a danger to people's faith. It is to show that phrases that some are mislead by have an acceptable meaning according to the Arabic language. This has been done by virtually all scholars, even Ahmad ibn Hanbal, so what is the problem?

A Faqir asked:

Let me give you another example ya shaikh. Some Wahabis recently translated as statement from imam adh-dhahabi as follows:

"Why do you say: 'A hand in reality is this bodily limb'? Rather, a 'hand' is homonym, and it is in accordance with, and of the same category of what it is attributed to ..... If it were that of which neither there is a like, nor it is a body, the hand would also be that of which neither there is a like, nor it is a body"

Answer and comment: There is nothing that Ash^ariys would disagree with here, except that I cannot see the use of it. Why is he saying "why do you say.."? Is he addressing the anthropomorphists or the Ash^ariys? If the latter, then he is contradicting himself.

A Faqir asked:

He (Al-Dhahabiy) also says: "If it is said: 'In its conventional usage, a hand only refers to the limb that we all know of' We would say in reply: Similarly, in conventional usage, knowledge, hearing and seeing are only accidents that subsist in bodies. Where, then, is the difference?" What would be the reply to this issue ya shaikh?

Comment: This is very silly. While words like knowledge, hearing and seeing can refer to events in bodies, this is not what immediately comes to mind when you hear such words. This is very different from words like Yad, Wajh, etc. because what comes immediately to mind when hearing such words are bodily attributes.

Re: the word sayyiduna

Question:

I wanted to ask whether the word ''sayyiduna'' has come through hadeeths of durood.As i see many duroods with this word.

Would it be a innovation to add such a word even the meaning is good?

Answer:  You can name the Prophet -may Allaah raise his rank, because he called his grandchild "Sayyid".

Re: dua not from sunnah

Question:

I found this answer on reciting a duaa which is not narrated from sunnah;

We should point out here that many of those whose needs are met when they call upon Allaah (du'aa') or recite such verses, have their needs met because of the humility and need for Allaah that they feel in their hearts, and their sincere turning to Him, not because of the du'aa' that they recited or the du'aa' that they offered beside a grave, and so on.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

 

The reason why the needs of some of those who offered haraam du'aa's are  met is that one of them may be in desperate need, such that even if a mushrik were in that state, praying beside an idol, he would receive a response, because of his sincere turning to Allaah,

Iqtida' al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem (2/698, 700)

Is this correct?

Answer:
It is self contradictory to say that a mushrik turns sincerely to Allah. Only a mad person would say such a thing.

Re: sunnah prayers related to jumuah prayer.

Question:

 I thought always that there are 4 rakats sunnah before and 4 rakats sunnah after the Jumuah prayer. 

Now recently a brother said to me that we must pray 6 rakat sunnah prayer after Jumuah

Answer: 6 rakaat is the saying of Abu Yusuf, not Abu Hanifa.

Question:

It is the practice of many people to pray after the 4 rakat sunnah of jumuah, the zuhr-i ahir prayer (that days zuhr) as a precaution if Jumuah is not valid, and therafter a 2 rakat qaza of missed fajr.

Answer: It is a sunnah to pray Thuhr afterwards if there is a chance that another Jumu^ah prayer in the same city preceded the one oneself participated in. That is, the takbiirah of the Imam preceded. One would only pray Fajr Qadaa if one had missed it. Moreover, praying precautionary Thuhr before the Qadaa of Fajr is invalid in the Hanafi school. One must pray Qadaa first, then the prayer of the time one is in - unless one fears missing it due to lack of time. 

MONDAY, JANUARY 22, 2007

A woman who is giving breast milk to her baby, does she need to fast?

Question:

A woman who is giving breast milk to her baby, does she need to fast?

Answer:
If she seriously fears for herself or the baby, she can break fast and make it up later.

SUNDAY, JANUARY 21, 2007

Re: tasbihat, dhikr and dua after fard or sunnah?

Question:

 When do i need to read my after salah supplications and invocations in the case when there is a established sunnah prayer after the fard prayer to be prayed like in the case of salatul maghrib? Do i need to read those supplications and invocations after the 3 rakat fard, or after completing the whole magrib prayer (i.e. after the 2 rakat sunnah muakkadah of magrib)? Someone said that Ibn Abidin and Tahtawi said so in their books that delaying a sunnah after fard for making tasbihat, dhikr and dua would be Makruh. But i didnt find any proof from ahadith for this. Rather all the hadeeth what i found in this case all indicate to do the Tasbihat and Dhikr and Dua after fard prayers: Even in one hadeeth it says:

 

Abu Amama (R.A.) narrates from Prophet Mohammad ( S.A.W.) that he Prophet Mohammad (S.A.W.) was asked which dua has the greatest acceptance. To this, he replied that the dua recited in the latter part of the night (Tahajjud time) and after the fard Salaat.
(Tirmidhi)

 

 

Please give me answer as soon as possible, im a little bit confused.

Answer: After the fard prayer means after the Sunnah Raatibah that comes are attached to these prayers. This is because Muslim narrated that Aa'ishah said that the Prophet -may Allaah raise his rank- only sat for the amount of the saying "Astaghfirullah, Astaghfirullah, Astaghfirullah. Allaahumma anta Al-Salaam wa minka Al-Salaam Tabaarakta Yaa Dhaa-l-Jalaali Wa Al-Ikraam."

Re: saying: Bi hurmati

Question:

Is it aloud to say in duaa:

"by the sanctity/honor of so-and-so in Your presence" (bi-hurmati / bi-jàhi fulàn).

Like saying ''Bi hurmati nabiyyina Muhammad'' or ''Bi hurmati al Quran''

Are these wording allowed in duaa, please clarify whether these words are proven from hadeeth.

Answer:
It is not allowed to say that someone is in Allah's presence. Presence is a word referring to a place and Allah is not in a place. As for the Arabic "bi hurmati", yes, this is allowed, it could be translated as "by the sanctity of". As for hadith, there is the well known authentic hadith of the blind person which states to say, "bi nabiyyika", which means "by Your Prophet."

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 06, 2007

Re: sifat question

Question:

Some Ash'aris like Ibn Khafif attribute a Yad to Allah.  He says in al-Aqida al-Sahiha:

I agree that they did not intend by it the literal meaning in the sense of limb that comes first to mind.

But, if some word is mentioned mudaaf to Allah it is not necessarily an attribute and the reason we know this is because of its meaning. Like the case of Naaqat Allah which we say is not an attribute of Allah.

Now bearing that in mind, I presume one can only Attribute a Yad to Allah, if he knows what Yad means. If one does not know what Yad means, then how could he say it is an attribute of Allah, for Yad Allah could easily be the second type of mudaf, like Kab'at Allah?

Answer: 

According to Al-Aamidi, in Abkaar Al-Afkaar, the fact that creating Adam is done with Yad as the Aayah states rules out possibilities of Yad meaning here anything other than an attribute of Allah, and he says that there is no undisputable proof to that it does not simply mean the attribute of power.  He adds that the fact that the word is in dual form doesn't matter since Arabs do use such a word both in singular and dual forms to mean power. 

He also gives an answer to those who object to this interpretation and argue that saying that it means power makes the statement applicable to all the other creations and doesn't give Adam any special rank. He says that Adam's rank is signified as special by having this statement referring to him in the Quran, even if it, strictly speaking, holds true for other creations as well.

Re: non verbally dua

Question:

Is it aloud to make the duaa made in various timings (like after salat and other times both with raised hands and without) non verbally i.e. formulating the wished dua (or the authentic duaas from quran and hadith) in ones hearth and saying it in mind and not saying it with tongue.

 

And is this also aloud inside salah (like reading the duaas in tashahhud, sajdah etc)

Answer:
You cannot make dua only in your heart if the dua is prescribed as being stated by the tongue, such as those inside the prayer. They must be loud enough to hear yourself (under normal circumstances of noise and hearing ability). However, if you just want to ask Allah for something, as it occurs to you, you can to this in the heart alone.

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14, 2007

Re: Al-Hadiyya al-alaiyya

Question:

what kind book is Al-Hadiyya al-alaiyya of Ibn Abidin son Allaaddin. 

Is it a book with proofs or only a manual of verdicts?

Answer:
It is a textbook for children in fiqh. Its focus is on verdicts.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 08, 2007

Re: position of the fingers

Question:

I ask this because i some different pratices;

The first practice i noticed by many people is that:

They raise their indexfinger at ''LAA'' and drop it at ''ILL ALLAH" without making a circle.

The second practice which i saw some people do is that:

On reaching the Shahadah (allaa) they form a circle with the thumb and middle finger and lift the index finger of the right hand and at (illaa) drop it onto the thigh while straightening the hand out immidiatly.

The thirt practice which i saw a very few do is that:

On reaching the Shahadah (allaa) they form a circle with the thumb and middle finger and lift the index finger of the right hand and at (illaa) drop it onto the thigh and maintain the circle and lowered indexfinger (which is still indicating to the qibla) to just before the taslim in prayer.

Please can you give me detailed info about this and tell me what Mulla Ali Qari and Ibn Abidin have stated in their treatises about pointing the indexfinger.

Answer: They both favor the third practice. This is based on what Ibn Aabidiin states in his Haashiyah, and Al-Qaariy in his Sharh Al-Muwatta. Ibn Aabidiin does not mention when to flatten the fist. What is apparent from what Al-Qaariy says is to keep it until after the salaam.